Maybe, maybe not. There is no room for anything else, certainly not for any black African blood. So might i proudly as a black man, yes it matters and yes she was of African decent. Maybe because she was as African (Egyptian) as my enslaved great great, grandparents, but you decide! Coptic Egyptians in particular can trace a direct lineage to the Ancients, linguisticly and culturally. According to this source, Cleopatra’s ethnicity was almost pure Greek Macedonian, but why does it matter? She was a superhero, and definitely black. They have a history in North Africa of several thousand years and they come in all shapes, sizes and hues. WE WERE KINGS AND QUEENS BEFORE AND AFTER CHRIST. I don’t think its fair of you to refer to notions that others have raised as “just silly,” the fact is that we have an incomplete picture, why the door has been opened to such much gossip and radical suggestions, its all fair game in the realm of the imagination and personal interpretation, while she was the last Ptolemy to rule Egypt, and therefore had Greek ancestry as well, with 50 to 75 percent of her background a mystery due to her mother and grandmother all of us can only draw speculations, while you are doing some thinking… at the end of the day you too have to speculate about what might have been, and there’s nothing wrong with that. real history… (Strange). Oh, sidebar, Jesus wasn’t white or black – he was brown. Greeks ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great conquered it in 332 B.C. So on that note Cleopatra VII was of native African descent and that blood line going that far down if she did have Greek blood it would be so little it wouldn’t of even matter. I fail to see how sleeping with every powerful “Greek” potentate equates to “role model” any way?? That makes no sense. Maybe saying that it doesn’t matter means that it doesn’t matter to you? Cleo wasn’t black because black . My issue with Duane Roller is that he is a liar and disgrace to his profession. most of the classic greek civilization resides nowadays in greece/hellas FYROM and … turkey. I also think that Rome’s portrayal of Cleopatra’s personality is somewhat more accurate than many other portrayals. But like, “she was Egyptian therefore she wasn’t Black” is the most absurd thing I’ve read today. An Egyptian person might find power in remembering Ramses II, we all want heroes whether it is a Greek person remembering Alexander the Great, or a Chinese man or woman remembering where they came from and their talented ancestors like Emperor Taizong of Tang. The tone of this article is exceedingly condescending, and I take issue with much of what was written. Cleopatra was not Greek or close to it. As far as ppl complaining about a white playing her in movie. & that there is TRUTH. That gives you your answer. However that is pretty irrelevant to the ancient Macedonia of Alexander or Ptolemy Soter. Lol I’m just sayin! If I were British I would be proud to remember Queen Elizabeth as apart of me. African American phenotype run the gamut and includes 3.5% of white American demographics (passing). If any of you are familiar with the story of Cleopatra becoming queen of Egypt you would know that she had to fight her sister Arsinoe to be restore to her throne. Cleopatra was not an Arab, this is very basic historical knowledge, she was a Ptolemy and Greek. also Indians are Asians, but they are not Chinese. Ancient Egyptians were a mix of African, Arabic & Greek blood. So many more… You have to realize the people with the power had control.. To put out the images that wanted to.. So, regardless of where we came from, there are only so many variations of the human phenotype that can develop. which adorns the crown of Pharaoh. Our Privacy Policy sets out how Oxford University Press handles your personal information, and your rights to object to your personal information being used for marketing to you or being processed as part of our business activities. With the inbreeding, Cleopatras Persian heritage is justified to its quantity, she was a quarter to this Theory and looks very much like it. She’s black white etc. What they do have is bits and pieces of what they stole from other races and repackaged as their own. -Disappearance of Whites Led to the Collapse of Their Civilizations- PEOPLE LIKE YOU ALLWAYS WANT TO MAKE US LOOK LESS BY YOUR STANDERS. I learned that I had to go back to the ancient sources which in this case are the histories written by Plutarch, Dio Cassius, Strabo and others. Cleopatra hadn’t Greek or Macedonian origin. This makes sense if they were part of her ancestral family. Cleopatra was a Greek Macedonian pure and simple. As a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, she was a descendant of its founder Ptolemy I Soter, a Macedonian Greek general and companion of Alexander the Great. As far as I know there is no evidence whatsoever for Cleopatra’s skin color. Kleopatra YES IT MATTERS WHAT RACE SHE WAS. But this may not have been the case, so one may need to look elsewhere for the ethnic background of Cleopatra’s mother. No ancient text has anything to say about the identity of either Cleopatra’s mother or her grandmother(s). Stacy Schiff’s novelistic biography has a good deal of speculation in it. Ancient Greeks had olive skin just like today. But worst from all of these anti-Hellenic causes, is the fight to have the Wests history start from Karalos Magnos – Charlamagne 800 AD, completely erasing Greek and Latin contributions towards Western Civilizations cultural development. I am not a historian, but I am an artist by profession, and I think a statement like you made is almost unrealistically literal when it comes to the land of art. If race doesn’t matter then why not let history be portrayed as authentically as possible by using the people during that period to justify the race. It’s sad to see how others rewrite history the way they want to. Dr. Bennett also points out the confusing nature of the material, and reminded me of another theory, that Cleopatra’s mother was actually the wife of her father, which probably would reduce non-Macedonian ancestry even more. Turkocentrists fight to have Trojan history re-labelled Turan history. An absolute woman, an amazingly capable queen, seen as equal to men even back then! Now for historical reasons it is also important to be able to identify figures as Caesar, President Lincoln, and Cleopatra as they really were. He can hide the truth, but he cannot erase it. I will close by making a statement that will certainly ruffle a lot of feathers. Whatever your natural skin tone is, under the same sun a darker person will still be darker. This does not make any sence: it is Macedonian or greek? It is disappointing to see the same old inaccuracies being perpetrated by Afrocentricts. Meaning she woukd have some nice toasty skin! Also, Strabo does not say that Cleopatra’s father had multiple wives nor that they were of high status. Macedonians (Greek: Μακεδόνες, Makedónes) are a regional and historical population group of ethnic Greeks, inhabiting or originating from the Greek region of Macedonia, in Northern Greece. True Macedonians come from the Greek province of Macedonia, which is at the same location as ancient Macedonia. But what about the mothers? Whenever we need to assign a skin colour to a person, it almost always is white by default. Edgar Allen Poe The Ancient Greeks had a very good understanding of who were Greek and who were not- there was never a grey area for them. Two of the cobras represent the traditional title of Lady of the Two Lands while the third is the Eye of Re The Vatican head, though missing its nose, is strikingly realistic and probably as close as we’ll ever get to the real Kleopatra. Maybe they are afraid (I should say still afraid) of what we’re actually capable of? Cleopatra’s father also had several wives. Lol if u gonna talk at least take a really good look at history facts . Egypt's Alexandria-based rulers, including Cleopatra, were ethnically Greek, descended from Alexander the Great's general Ptolemy I Soter. Second sign: referring to the possibility of Egyptian heritage but asserting there’s no way she’s a black African. And them she won’t be the last black woman to rule. But it also includes many other people. Jesus was not white/Europea. Then later, they intermarried with the Persian-Greek Pontic kings strengthening the Persian blood. Swallow that pill. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OUR HISTORY EXCEPT BY WHAT YOU WERE TOLD. Blurring the distinction between Macedonians and ex-Yugoslavs intentionally, erodes Western Civil Societies common understandings of shared common heritage…this is the first step towards crumbling the foundations Western Civilization was grounded on – a provocative anti-Western act! The people of Greece were African The colder can’t become hot but the hot can become cold. The author made this comment ” It is hard to imagine that race would be more important than acting ability, but clearly others disagree” — then why not cast Cleopatra with a male actor if historical facts don’t matter. P W Botha former Prime Minister of South Africa was also born in Africa and was therefore an African. […] what kills me is that our history has been sooooo white washed that Jesus and Cleopatra who are of African blood are apparently white. legitimate daughter using the argument that the Romans never questioned Kleopatra’s legitimacy. If she was mixed, which I’m inclined to believe, she was mixed with Berber. She’s not actually Egyptian. I will for sure get hate for this, people are going to assume my pigment and try to bash me for it. EGYPT IS IN AFRICA! Because white privilege would have a hissy fit and protest for ‘blackwashing’ to stop immediately in favour of history remaining in tact. Personally I take this theory of mine she was not just of Ptolemaic stock, the Seleucids were also inbred to a certain degree retaining the blood of upame or apame, a Persian princess. but never about North-Africa and its original people, the Berbers or the Amazigh. Featured Image Credit: ‘The meeting of Antony and Cleopatra’, by Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema (1885). They even participated in the Olympics, a place where ONLY Hellenes (Greeks) could participate. What is unique about Cleopatra and her ancestors is that they weren't Egyptian (or African) but Greek. Although Cleopatra was born in Egypt, she’s actually of Macedonian Greek descent. If you want to talk about civilization, as you say race should be irrelevant, of course and please refer to before Greeks which were utilised by. Now, even if she were pure Egyptian, there is a large possibility she would possess a lighter skin tone, as is common in Egyptians. Cleopatra, (Greek: “Famous in Her Father”) in full Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator (“Cleopatra the Father-Loving Goddess”), (born 70/69 bce —died August 30 bce, Alexandria), Egyptian queen, famous in history and drama as the lover of Julius Caesar and later as the wife of Mark Antony. IN FACT ONE OF THE KINGS THAT WAS THERE FOR JESUS BIRTH WAS BLACK. AFRICA IS ALL OF US, the beginning. Cleopatra, who was feared and admired during her reign, was the last of the pharaohs of Egypt who had an active role in ruling the country. I’m from India and even though I have met and befriended some really great people who happen to be Caucasian, I’ve also come across other Caucasians who have ridiculed and belittled me even before actually seeing my face just on the grounds of being from a culture they don’t understand. After all, if one were interested in the details of Cleopatra’s naval command, one would naturally wish to know just what kind of naval vessels she commanded; if one were interested in the details of Cleopatra’s expert administration, one would naturally wish to know what successful policies she enacted. In fact, they represent themselves in a variety of shades . For me that means that Cleopatra is also of Berber descent, which can explain her appereance. This makes sense to me, thinking about both the dynastic trend (Egyptian and otherwise) to tie to other ruling dynasties, and in particular the sense of “keep it in the family” (sorry!) Your article is full of bias and ridiculousness. I would say it does matter. It’s only a non issue if you are white. Also, check out the BBC’s findings: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm. Also, the Egyptians did not depict themselves as white as we see it today so having a modern white actress play an ancient Egyptian is not accurate in the least the proof is on the walls. As such, it would only make sense to possess and encourage some interest in knowing the details of Cleopatra’s appearance, including her race, since that is a primary detail of one of her accomplishments that Mr. Roller cares about so mightily. Egypt is one of the advanced civilization in human history to teach many things all of us. Egypt which is right next to Sudan and Ethiopia and you’re trying to argue that she was largely Macedonian? You people are notorious for trying to take my ancestors great achievements and over shadow them with ridiculous conclusions based on non circumstantial evidence. Other races (mainly white Europeans) are always saying it doesn’t matter what race Egyptians are biblical people were. It is on the continent of Africa! but I think that it does matter in the larger world outside of you. Not to mention the inbreeding. In Greek, Cleopatra means “famous in her father.” Her full name means “Cleopatra the Father-Loving Goddess.” Her family had come from Macedonia but rule Egypt at the time of Cleopatra’s birth. 4- Near and Middle Eastern: since the Greek expansion into Asia-Minor and Asia proper, ensured prolonged ties with Eastern cultures. Muslim Egyptians and Copts are both descendants of Ancient Egyptians, they just converted to different religions (actually Muslim Egyptians converted to Christianity first and then Islam later, Copts never converted to Islam). More than a few Ptolemaic queens, including Kleopatra VII, are designated Female Horus on the extant monuments. Why is it hard to grasp that neighboring countries with millennia of interaction are more likely to share deeply rooted ties with each other, in this case ancient Egypt, than all of Egyptian history with all of Grecco-Roman history? So by the time of Cleopatra’s grandparents, there may have been an Egyptian element in the racial stem. With these statements being said, the point that I’m addressing is that the origin of mankind begin in Africa which is the mother land. As though it would taint their worth or make their achievements less important. As a Ptolemaic pharaoh, Cleopatra was Greek, and the way she secured power over Egypt was a sign of the changing role of Egypt in the Ancient world. Another transparent attempt to deny in greatness of person or historically personality to African ancestry. But that’s just what the author of this article fails to realise (poor fragile being) it is just what he called it…acting…pretending…not real…fiction…made-up…santa-claus…fairies…unicorns…white. My last caveat is lookup the recent discovery that early Europeans did not have white skin. Your holier-than-thou attitude toward natural curiosity in a historical figure only makes you look the poorer a scholar, and your miserly disapproval of what knowledge others seek out, rather than simply applauding others for seeking knowledge at all, is not even consistent within its own dim and under-considered reasoning. Wow. I heard Stacy Schiff suggest (book tour interview with Diane Rehm) that there might have been Persian princess in the bloodline. How about a woman who risked her life to enter the deep South over and over to save hundreds of lives? -- Topsy.com, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm, Casting the End of the Roman Republic - History Buff, https://progressivepupil.wordpress.com/2014/02/27/right-to-death-defining-anti-blackness/, http://www.ephesus.us/ephesus/octagon.htm, http://www.behindthename.com/name/cleopatra, The Unnecessary War Between Christianity and Science – The Budding Sage League, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXj8AfWcDM, 5 Things You Didn’t Know About the Ancient Egyptians | Novus History, Rome: a “white colonial occupation”? […]. I feel that her race is important to a certain degree because I come from a culture (Black American) whose historical importance has been methodically denied and erased. Not something to be proud of.. Little girls and women everywhere need to know she was black. She was petite slim, dark hair and olive skin. Perhaps that is why this topic is extremely controversial…, Look at the images of Nefertiti they show a woman of a much darker complexion similar to the people of East Africa. Black African is African period. Please stop it, this stuff shouldn’t matter because history is pointless when you’re trying to pay your bills and take care of your family. Give me a break. I’m sorry but the writer here sounds angry about the true possibility that she was brown or black. Seems like the same argument arises on the “race” of Jesus (being Black African). That Cleopatra VII was considered other, a barbarian, a witch, a wh**e by Roman society means there was a high probability she not only had a vastly different culture, but looked markedly different. “ask any copt (modern descendents of egyptians) if they are black and you will get your butt kicked.”. African-Americans are not an homogeneous group of people. Look at rap/hip hop and yoga. Daughter of Ptolemy XII, Cleopatra was one of the last of a long line of Hellenistic Greek rulers following the death of the Macedonian King Alexander the Great. Don’t be a racist supremacist idiot and stop trying to use your format to falsify history and science to push your agenda smdh. It would never happen…know why? Cleopatra was born in 70 or 69 BC and was the oldest daughter of Pharaoh Ptolemy XII (Auletes) of Egypt. Now for the second: Egypt is a country in the continent of Africa. Even if it goes against what we have believed in years. Jesus Thus, it is through them that scholars have been able to identify three ancient portrait heads as representing her. I have noticed that race never seems to matter when a noted individual is deemed an ethnicity other than White. Common heritage with clear understanding from whence it began. This is the most false idiotic racially biased and ridiculous thing I’ve ever read by a supposed expert. And it’s foolish to think other wise.history is history but to try and take facts out of an important part of it is sick. Every once in awhile, inbreeding needs an injection of new DNA so subsequent children reach reproductive age. If this premises is true then where did white people/Caucasian derive. What about this: Metro Golden Meyer presents an epic film displaying an historical accomplishment of struggles for freedom in the sixties by Dr. Martin Luther King played by Tom Cruise. When the original white peoples who created those civilizations vanished or became an insignificant minority (through death and absorption into other races), their civilizations “fell” in exactly the same way that the Native American civilization in North America “fell.”. The real battle raging right now is clash of civilizations. Let’s respct that until we can know more about her descending…, Whom ever wrote this article needs a refund of their historical education. Cleopatra was actually the seventh woman in the Ptolemaic dynasty to bear the name. Please watch the documentary “Hidden Colors” and you will understand why it is important to so many to clarify the lineage of great historical figures. The current racial makeup of Egypt is a result of mixing between native Egyptians and European colonizers, so if you are saying Egyptian to mean native Egyptians prior to this racial mixing, then you are talking about black Africans. While I agree with Dr. Roller that Kleopatra VII’s These POC owned WHITE SLAVES. Let them continue living in lala land. WAS CLEOPATRA BLACK, WHITE, GREEK, EGYPTIAN? But although the Ptolemaic dynasty was Macedonian originally, we don’t know the identity of Cleo’s mom for sure, so the queen could have […]. So yes IT DOES MATTER. You can barely stay in the Sun for an hour without burning up. It’s like they experience cognitive dissonance at the thought that a black woman (and I emphasize black more than woman) could have not only been regarded as brilliant but have been internationally renowned for her beauty. It would seem logical that she would be the mother, since we have no evidence to the contrary. Unfortunately, for the old rule of thumb is science is uncovering it’s error and ommissions. To act like they cared for us. In other words, to keep WHITE or Greek in power, the Greeks built a brand new city! Doesn’t make very much sense to the average person but you can keep hanging on to your false hopes. First sign that this author didn’t know what he was talking about: the title. She can be POC all she wants she still had slaves. What’s shameful is to fabricate true history by trying to claim otherwise. People would be outraged. Example both Halle Berry and Barrack Obama are half white yet still very much people of color and she had significantly less in her blood. Greeks prefer the term ‘Haemus Native’ – anyway, a Balkan identity similar to that of Albanians, Serbians, Bulgarians, Romanians, does exist. Smh so in order for her to black her father had to have slept with a slave? I think rather than telling us what Cleopatra actually looked like, an artistic representation, be it in the ancient world or modern, tells us more about the artist who made it, than its subject. It would explain her popularity, but that can also be explained by the simple fact that she was an amazing politician – She knew how to charm people. The illusions are dissipating. Yet among her many accomplishments, and arguably the one for which she is most commonly known, was her great beauty and, relevant to Mr. Roller’s perspective, her ability to use that beauty as a tool to manipulate powerful figures like Julius Caesar. One is that Cleopatra was the only ruler of her dynasty who knew, in addition to her native Greek, the Egyptian language. Clearly Cleopatra was an African descent if she wear white woman baby many images carved in stone on coins they would have had that white woman on everything let’s be real. Cleopatra was Greek from Macedon, with heritage to match. It’s hard to disagree with the conclusion of this article — that Cleopatra’s ethnic ancestry is irrelevant to her career and achievements. TO duane w roller : The Ptolmic dynasty was almost exclusively inbred from the time of Cleopatra I Syra, who was herself 1/2 Persian, born to Ladice III (3/4 Persian) and Antiochous III (1/4 Persian). receding chin. Cleopatra’s maternal ancestry, regardless of its ethnic makeup, has some relevance to establishing _ancient_ ideas of what constituted dynastic legitimacy. Though her family lived in Egypt for about three hundred years, Cleopatra’s roots could be traced back to the Greek Ptolemy I, who served under Alexander the Great. Geez. You sound like a typical cacausoid trying to explain away the obvious. He was from Isreal. Next thing you know people gonna change Martin Luther King white. For many generations now, Hollywood movies have been dominated by white males and thus white male views on society; thousands of different minority groups, from Africans to Latino to LGBTQAI+ have been completely ignored, unable to get roles as people of their own ethnicity. It’s a little complicated, so do follow closely! In Ptolemaic society Native Egyptians were forbidden from holding positions in public office, government and had limited rights. Her full name is Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator (meaning “the father-loving goddess” in Greek). One should notice that not all african black people can be properly be considered as donors into the afro-american heritage. It would allow African Americans to share their culture and ideas, which would lead to better understandings between cultures – that is what media is for, to share ideas. Who cares what color and blood line Cleopatra’s mother is from etc, etc.. she ruled Egypt was their Queen came from a Macedonian Dynasty(Descent)she was clever, highly intelligent, spoke fluently in several languages. The ancient Romans perceived both Greece and Egypt as exotic, “eastern” lands. It’s true that Afrocentrism is pathetic, but it’s especially pathetic when espoused about Egypt by American blacks… _as if_ their c. 1700–1800 West African ancestors even share a common tie with Ancient Egypt. Your email address will not be published. It be better to admire an average person but you have the coin and... Not just respect the authority here and commend him for sharing it?!!!! Can not claim you are a lot of girls to choose from important than acting ability, but is! Person who did rule areas married women whom were native to the area with Hellenistic ”! Of who her mother was an Egyptian element in the 1963 movie 'CLEOPATRA ' dynasty... Extant likenesses of her era opposition ( whites ) that there might have an! Here reading the lovely comments was one of Egypt’s most famous queens and the spoke Hellenic, had names... Common sense to know that “ Aryan ” does not exist the way, are starved for models! Saharians or darker Nubians ) and southern Niger-congo tribes I comment Caucasian of Macedonian Greek descent because!, Oreithyia deemed necessary to diminish civilizational principles the host culture was as! How mistreated Albanian history is were virtually no black actresses who could play a mixed ‘. His five children had another mother Davis is a little frisson from knowing the ethicity. 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